IRE Asks: Is it "unfair" to call for raid assistance over Skype?

A Ssyrian Diabolist drawn by MMO artist Chris Bourassa.

MMOs are entertainment, something we play for fun in our spare time, right? And the beauty of Iron Realms games is that there are so many avenues to explore – you can fight, roleplay, participate in politics, explore, or even become a famous merchant. You can essentially pick and choose your fun.

 

One complaint your often hear, however – usually from people defending or attacking a city – is that when a largescale battle occurs, lots of players mysteriously jump into the game out of nowhere.  Some players argue that while this is not against any game rules, it’s unfair to the players who are already in the game when the fight begins because it’s misleading. Imagine attacking a city with ten soldiers at the ready, and then as soon as you breach the walls, twenty more appear. 

 

On the flip side, what about those players who play the text game just because they like the combat? They can’t be blamed for that, and it would be unrealistic to expect them to sit in the game idly for hours on end, waiting for some skirmish to occur. 

 

Do you think it’s unethical for players to log in just for raids? On one hand, it’s frustrating to their opponents – but on the other hand, a major selling point of IRE text games is the freedom to participate in whatever aspects of gameplay you like best. Where do you stand?

 

Comment below!

Comments

There's really no way to stop it so you'd have to use barbaric methods like trying to ban people who did it, and that'd just hurt the game. I wish more people in Shallam would coordinate over Skype.

I'm against the idea in principal, but there's really nothing we can do about it, unfair or not.

And they know we know that they are taking the moral low ground.

 

Mechanically speaking, if you couldn't do something like that, war would only happen when everyone was asleep.

:(

:(

Have to agree.  The fun of a large battle is the size, if one side needs to pull in some help OOC, I see no problem so long as the other side has that option as well.

I agree that it is unfair, but what can you do.

I don't know. :s

As long as people don't get frustrated and stop having fun, everything is pretty much okay with me.

exactly. it's all about having fun, i guess. without trampling on others', of course.

Maybe...

What's wrong with trampling on people?

Nothing.

Nothing wrong with replying to your own post either :D

this sarcastic comment for the credit

Where?

Here

But where?

:(

:(

Cheer up!

yep

yep

I'm in the middle. If it makes a raid or something more balanced then i'm all for it.

Exactly.

Maybe..

Why make someone enjoy the game less anyway...

Agreed

mhm

mhm

^^

Yea, well.. not as if they can tell you NOT to..

+1

Pretty much...

best answer here.

This. :3

exactly!

They exist for a reason.

 

I talk on Skype fairly often with some Achaean friends, but allowing the information that passes there to affect in-game stuff is a no-no. This include raids.

The rationalization behind tells, chat channels, etc. is that they are telepathic communication. Why make an artificial distinction between voice communication and a telepathic communication that could exist in the same space? 

If you can't see the difference, I doubt anyone can explain it to you.

You, my friend just saved me five minutes.

Or you can't explain because it is a position taken rather than a well thought out arguement.

probably because one is game-specific, the other is not?

Assuming nobody in a fair-enough-fight is going to waste time calling someone to tip the scales unfairly, then it would only wind up being used to fix the 15 v 3 raid situation. I have no problem with that.

Who wants to fight the 15 v 3 raid anyway. Neither side would have any fun so why not get some help.

Especially when the 15 are sitting on top of 80,000 credits worth of artis

shi*.

I agree with this sentiment. I don't really like the idea of using OOC methods to get IC help in theory, but in this case it makes the game more fun for everyone involved.

I agree, though I dont like unbalanced raids on either side I dont think it fair for the forces of good to run in and trample all over Mhaldor, when no one is there but by the same token I dont like it when it is done to us and more and more people just appear out of nowhere when they were clearly not there before the raid happened, OOC means of communication shouldnt be used in an IC context but like others have said it is impossible to stop so why whine about it, just improve and learn and move on 

Yes

Yes

Yep. I'm with you.

Is it "unfair" to enjoy a game as a game? To leave out the boring bits, log on when there's fun to be had?

I don't think so.

This guy knows what he's talking about.....this guy

YUP!

mhm

mhm

THAT GUY!

well-said

exactly my thoughts on the matter. People who complain about this bother me.

we need to worry about it in Aetolia =/

with Aetolia dying a slow death at the moment again, it really matters as we lack even numbers onboth sides now :(

Agreed. Getting everyone to remember that it's just a game, particularly with the sometimes very extensive investment we place in our characters, can be tricky, but that's all it is after all.

To echo many others, too, there's not a good way to prevent the situation without harming the player base and ruining more of the fun, so why bother worrying over it?

+1

He knows his stuff~

You make a very good observation Vadi. One that is shared by a number of people.

Agreed.

Agreed

Agreed.. again

Mhm

Mhm

I agree, too! 8D

we're all in agreement, then

 

I agree there's agreement here.

There is much logic to what you say, but this also ruins game balance and is outrageously OOC.  Sometimes raids are lopsided.  What fun would there be if all raids were balanced without the occasional spanking now and then?  Everyone needs their arse stomped now and then.  Oh I remember the days when Lord Vastar's Order would get their arses stomped so bad :)  teehee  Worst Order EVER!  ahaha

I hadn't thought of it like that.

 

 

In virtually any of the IRE's I've ever played in, no two cities/communes/whatever are created equal in terms of combat... at times, just to have a shot, the underdog needs to time things well. But when the "big boys" decide to call for help OOC and stomp the underdog, yet again, it just kind ruins the fun.

 

When the smaller group decides to use strategy to their advantage to have a shot, and an OOC method ruins that, well... I know there's nothing to be done about it, but it really is stupid, especially just to be able to say "Hey look. We won... again... for the three hundreth time in a row!"

 

Be happy with what you have online.

 

Also, the argument that "We're skipping the boring parts and logging in for the fun." Is complete bullshit. If you only think curb stomping people is fun, go play CS:S. kthxbai. Combat is at its most fun when the outcome isn't predetermined.

 

You're just seeing things from your point of view. Are you saying when 10 people show up from a bigger org than yours and are killing off your denizens that even if you have the phone number/IM for a friend you shouldn't ask if they want to come and play?

 

If there's a village revolt, just don't tell them? If there's a wildnode don't tell them? If a god is waking up just don't tell them? You can't have it both ways.

It doesn't ruin game balance. The game is not balanced around who can be on where and if it is ooc then it is also ooc to schedual raids based on when people will be around.

an interesting point.  I don't particularly care about the combat, but if I couldn't log in for studying and house stuff, then I would be pretty upset.

As long as it doesn't have an influence on roleplay or anything like that I don't see what's wrong with it

I agree.

^

^

I agree. There is no reason you should have to be logged into the game to "know what's going on". Seems fine to me. In fact, if you wanna text message your buddies who are out and about so they come home and get on their computer, that's fine too, whatever!

There are many forms of metagaming, but I strongly disagree that calling in your friends just for the fights is a good thing. The fights are so much better when there is actual RP behind it, and this metagaming removes much of that aspect.

Seconded. What's IG, stays IG...

totally

I have to say I agree, but there's no realy way to enforce this so I guess we just have to lump it.

mtown venting it up next raid. 

It's a game. I'm willing to bet there is a very tiny minority of people who have not just stopped what they were doing because they were mad at what was happening in game, or have logged in because, "Holy crap! Event! Event!" I've done it before, for raids, events, and just casually doing nothing or whatever. In the end, it can't be policed any decently, and it's a game, one I think we all enjoy for our own reasons. Let this just be another reason.

A thousand times this

If Achaea is a game then why do I have to write essays?

exactly

If people like it when raids happen and they hear one is happening there is nothing wrong with logging in to have fun. Same with people who log off when a raid happens because they do not enjoy combat I guess :/

Seconded

I lean towards this. If you can plan a raid around game days or months in advance about when they'll be less defenders about, then you're metagaming. If you're really being IC all those characters are in game always and may show up to defend at anytime.

This is the Internet, and there is no way you can control or expect or police communication outside of the game. As a result, it should be considered fair for people to log onto the game at the call of their buddies to play a part of the game that they enjoy.

Yes it should be. If you enjoy say roleplaying and don't like to fight, you shouldn't be forced to, just as you shouldn't be forced to roleplay if all you're here for is the fighting! 

Except that IRE games supposedly enforce RP. Theoretically, you should be punished for not roleplaying.

 

You could always say it's kind of like hearing a raid alarm go off when you're 'asleep'. =P How else do you think military bases suddenly have the whole barracks out with only a few sentries?

This is a logical approach to it.

Yeah, I guess that makes sense, even if I don't like it.

I'm torn on this one. I feel like calling for outside assistance via skype or any IM sort of messaging is extraordinarily OOC. But in the same mind, I'm myself have been guilty of asking questions, getting help, or even just learning things about other characters via OOC means that the other person and I agree we can use as if we were told ICily but are unable to tell each other IG for one reason or another. I guess if you enjoy raiding and wanna pop in for the fun, by all means go for it. If that means you're a raider and have just increased the chances of decimating the other city, then go for it. Just as if you're in the defending party, you can increase the defenders and decimate the attackers and even form a new raiding party. It's tit for tat and doesn't seem "unfair" at all because both sides can participate in the "underhanded" way of the game.

Come on, let's be honest. There's no way to separate fully OOC and IC and our real selves and our IG characters. And I have to agree with a previous poster. Do I want to log in so that I can stand around and do nothing for a while (or grind or something) or some seriously fun PvP? I do both and I don't think I have ever logged in because I saw or heard OOC that a raid, seige, or general big battle would take place, but I can see why people would. I don't mind so much, honestly, though it bothers me when tons of the enemy awakens...Not much to do about that, I suppose...

SOUND THE ALARM! The alarm's pretty much the sound of Skype loading...

 

Dooot. Dooot. Dooot.

But in the end there's no way to police it.

you really can't argue the legality of how the gaming world has grown.

Meta!

Meta meta.

There's really no way to stop it, but it is pretty cheap.

In the deep, dark recesses of my RP purism, I feel it's inappropriate to use OOC methods to evoke an in-game response, from both allies AND enemies. However, I also tend to push those notions aside for the sake of a better gameplay experience. To my mind, every adventurer is still there, in the game, going about their lives regardless of whether they are logged in or not -- this is how I can justify sharing information through meta channels that my character would realistically be expected to know, such as public events/RP that is logged and shared on the forums or directly via other OOC channels. Rumours are whispered, tales of glory and infamy are repeated, and every tavern has patrons with wagging tongues if you know how to use them. In the end, it's all about a deeper participation in the game, and the more interaction I can get with others, the better. I wish this issue was handled more rationally by more people so we can skip the obligatory 'What'd I miss!?' sessions whenever someone 'wakes up' that they use to justify their IC knowledge, when they already know full well what's going on (that's why they logged in right then in the first place, after all!). It's more respectful of everyone's time.

 

So, ultimately, I can't begrudge anyone knowing that combat or other events are starting to occur and choosing to wake up and participate, since I tend to assume they're already there anyway in-character. I wish more folks would 'wake up' more often.

This is now my headcannon. Everyone is "around" at all times, they're just not always active.

The RP factor is an interesting variable but I do like the idea of always "being there".

I like this idea to an extent, especially since according to Lusternian lore, a character's "soul" (i.e. player) is something they picked up from the portal of Fates and is, in fact, an RL person who thinks they're just playing a game. So this means when we log out, our characters go about their normal lives behind the scenes, or something. We aren't fully interacting with the world at all times.

 

Now, I hate that aspect of Lusternian lore, but eh.

 

For those interested in that bit, check out the Book of Meridian here: http://www.lusternia.com/book-of-meridian

^

This

I find it meta to do that ssimply cause im MKO there is plenty of PVP to be had without that.Help with game mechanic questions or whatever is fine but to activley call in reinforcements is just BS imo.  If you wanna PvP that bad, just take a village or something.  nine times outta ten you'll pick a fight

Yup

Now I agree with this person, Imma too stooopid to make up my own mind!

been a while since my last comment, just gimme a credit.....please

If people are interested just in the group PvP combat, and so ask to be contacted via Skype or whatever when there's a raid, then that's ok; essentially, what they're doing is no worse than being logged out but keeping an eye on events.

But if people are contacting others on Skype to ask for help from people who gave their Skype information for non-game-related reasons, then that's essentially using OOC resources for IC goals, which can easily start to become problematic (even buying credits in order to get ahead in combat via artifacts or the like is looked down on.)

If people actually pressure citymates or housemates to join (even when they would rather be doing something else), then that's definitely unfair both in the game (to the other side) and in real life (to the person being pressured), and if it happens it should be banned.

And if someone is logged on as one character, sees a raid, and switches to a character that will be more effective for the raid, I'm pretty sure that's explicitly considered multi abuse.

Just use it for in raid communications, not calling in people who're offline to log in..

Lol. Go play EVE and see how much Vent/TS/Skype matters

Had a friend playing EVE but.. just big ships.. moving around? 

If you're going to cut out all the meat then Titanic, Star Trek and Star Wars are "just big ships moving around".

Heck about every game I played has vents or some form of them to talk to others. I think its bull that they have to resort to them to get their crud together but hey it happens.

Things like that always seem to happen in MKO after sides have already been assessed and everyone's informed and everyone's ready to go for a relatively evenly balanced siege. It's frustrating and annoying and kinda lame, but it's a game and you can't really blame people for having fun with it.

The skype thing scuttles any ic ability to plan or strategize based on who is visible in game.

I am not a combatent so will probly get flamed for this but, I agree with the above statement  it ruins the stratajsing of raiders or defenders making it pointless to plan ahead.  I also would agree there's not a real good way to police this avinue of support but, I think it's extreamly ooc and blows any rp value out of the water.

Policing isn't a practical option, and in any case, many players don't know what ethics mean. And roleplaying is affected when people start showing up because it is so obvious, it essentially undermines the concept of roleplay.

Excuse me, but what about any good taste?

I feel that using skype for raiding (and other OOC tools) spoils the game, no matter what. Only Gods should be able to  solicit OOC the players and with IG messages only, especially if the situation become unbalanced and the city faces serious distractions.

Using meta channels is unfair in a RP enforced mud. It is obvious. Surely it cannot be controlled, so there is no point in debating, but I would like to make a couple of statement.

The game is not just about making a character, buy a system, grind, and start PvPing. There is more, Achaea is a vivid world, it is alive. It is not "just" a game. People spend egregious amount of money to partecipate in the world, according to the measure they like. People, actually, live there. I saw people logged for hours and hours seamlessy. I am not here to say whether this is good or it is a bad thing per se, but I think that all of this cannot be underestimated. I do not think that buying a system and use it in PVP it is "fair" either (but that's another story, I absolutely respect the work of others and I find it great).

However, in Achaea there is personal interaction (some people  even get intimate), there is roleplaying, discovery and immagination. In Achaea the possibilities are enormous, and that is the magic of the "game". That's why it develops some sort of addiction etc...

I think that the crucial factor is to keep things balanced in the "game" and in the "real life" (what is real? Nobody can't claim it for sure), but, most of all, everything must satisfy a sort of "good taste". Twittering and skyping for raidings fall ceretainly beyond such boundary.

Of course this is jsut my comment, everybody should enjoy the game as they like. The "world" reacts accordingly.

You're talking about a game which allows personal tells and city, clan, house, chats (with LOGS!), and these means of communication have no official IC explanation...

 

Nah, I love Achaea but it's a stretch to say the game enforces RP...

but there is a code of conduct in the channels. As far as I understand, the only OOC chatting allowed may be in clans and through tells. Achaea is a digital virtual world after all, not a RPG in a classic sense.

I played Aardwolf for a bit, and all the smileys in general channels ruined the atmosphere, if any. Still Aardwolf is ranked as number one in the topmudsite list, and maybe it is because you do not have to be level 70/100 to dispatch 5 goblins in Azdun.

Anyway, I am not contrary in a absolute sense to call for help during raids (although, I find it more appropriate that Gods call for help, having the power to reach the other world, the real world). However, it should be done using the tools the game provides, the messages. Messages can be checked via browsers, and that is enough for me. Skyping to call for help during raids to better organize and/or attack a city should be avoided. I say "should" because there is no way to block it, and therefore it is futile to debate over it.

Finally, everybody should play Achaea for what they like in it. 

And the point is that it is obvious when suddenly people start rocking up. Its one thing to have OOC channels, it's another when they are not even in the game at the time.

 

We gotta learn that we are not gods and that our orgs cannot win every fight.

+

+

what roleplay has to do with it. Logging in and logging out of the game are things we do for entirely OOC reasons. Logging in because there's a raid is no more OOC than logging in for any other reason. It's only once you're logged in that you can roleplay well or badly.

 

It would be bad roleplay if you made it clear from the time you logged in that you knew about what had been going on without being told...but you don't need to do that.

People play this game for various reasons, which could be for the raids and PvP. Of course, a sense of balance and fair play should equate into it; if you're overwhelming an enemy faction, no need to call for more. If you're defending and being utterly decimated... who knows? Up to the discretion of the defenders.

In any case, I agree that even if you logged in for the sake of raiding/defending, it shouldn't be made obvious that you know exactly what's going on IC; as long as it's roleplayed out appropriately, I don't see a problem with it, either if we're doing it or if an enemy faction is doing it, keeping in mind the balance of the fights. The more the merrier after all.

I agree.

uh

huh

You hit the nail on the head.

IC

Obviously anyone who favors this does not care about roleplay at all.  Tis sad.

Nature of the world we live in though. See: Cheat codes

if IRE had a cheat code, would you use it?

But, on the other hand, does anyone have a right to fight with superior numbers?

These articles just get dumber.

This.

^

yep, better than being about skyrim though

Inspire us.  Write an article for us, please.

 

 

Will I get paid? I would totally give it a shot.

1 bound credit, to be sure!

 

I'll take a bounded too.

Me too!

bounty of bounds

I would totally write articles for here for credits!

yep

yep

I mean, If you want to keep it game realistic, it's like waking up the troops during a crisis.

Eh

No practical way to police it, so who cares.

Yup

Too true.

mhm

mhm

true

^

^

Usually other cities try to take advantage of fewer numbers during raids. I think it's perfectly fair because it evens the playing field. I think of it a bit like how the BG Alterac Valley used to work in wow. It used to be whoever queued and then it would start without evening numbers. It WAS HORRIBLE. One side always got wiped like crazy. But, then they fixed it to queue exactly evenly, and Alterac doesn't suck so much anymore. I think that getting people on isn't really a bad thing, it just makes it so that things are a little more fair in most situations.

Meh

Don;t care much I never participate in raids anyway

Well.. now you just went and planted the idea in everyone who didn't think to use skype in raids' heads! So now they will use it anyway and whether it is unfair or not doesnt make a difference now does it!

I think some topics of discussion should be suggested to the writers of these articles, coz seriously, I wanna make my credit comment worth it okay!

Everything is fair in Achaea and war.

That's right winning is everything. Do what you have to do!

 

Not just just Achaea though, people will do anything for an advantage (except Krondorians who wait for fair fights, silly people).

agreed!

You're a terrible person.

mean

No, no, no.. I'M a terrible person. I drink, smoke, AND gamble!

Totally fine. If this happens more for Imperian players, maybe there'd be more of us online. Win-win.

Lol

How fun it would be to call out targets over a Skype call. Makes it so much easier to coordinate things.

lol

I've played at the same table as people who I convinced to play Achaea.  I don't see the problem.

unfair! :P  seriously they need to ask better questions

It happens, won't stop anytime soon so why bother trying to police it or worry about it?

How often does people even raid? If it takes skype to actually DO it, go for it!

^

This.

and everyone can do it.

It is unfair, but everyone does it anyway.

But then the more people to duke it out, the more fun right? I mean if it turns a one sided battle, into a full out skirmish that can go either way, does it not make the victory all the more sweeter?

And if they players are good enough they can roleplay the sudden influx of defenders off, as reinforcments waiting for the enemies to take the bait.

Exactly. I don't particularly like the idea of mixing OOC and IC channels, but I dislike having low populations for this sort of thing even more. I don't think calling in people via skype or anything else is a big deal.

Besides, it's hardly like we choose to log in for IC reasons in the first place - we do it cuz we've gotten off work or have a free moment when we get home at night, etc. It's not my character that chooses to do so

You guys just need more coord

Its not as if the game promotes OOC activity to affect in-game standing in any way...

Idlebeard!

*baps Ariadne over the head with an ooc-credit-bought artifact*

I am Bill Nighy, and I approve of this tactic.

I approve of Bill Nighy!

Bill Nighy is always right.

It's OOC, and I don't like it for that, but it's not unfair.

The title should had been 'Achaea Asks', not 'IRE Asks'.

 

^

Why? It happens in all the games.

it does also happen in Lusternia.. But only on plane level. I mean, what with the abundance of guards, it's really hard to attack on prime.

craaaaaazy.

This reminds me of time when RL took over Ashtan - think they were using MSN or AIM to do it. New age, same idea.

hrm

I don't think it's that terrible, on the contrary..if it enhances gameplay then great.

I like the idea and wish more people were open to it, but it's not always the case that people want to talk to you so much OOCly

no it is wrong, but what can you do.

I am on the fence.

You can't stop the metagame.

True

Everything goes somewhere.

To win.

It's the only way to play.

Adapt or die. Since this can't be policed, you either jump on the bandwagon, or you don't and accept the consequence.

It's fine

meh

I don't do it but i don't mind if it happens.

it's a good counter for off-peak raids too :)

No

I don't see any reason why that would be a bad thing. If they are raiding the are expecting opponents right? I see how it could be annoying to the raiders who have taken the time to find out the a city is low on defenders and then when they show up so do the people from the city they are attacking. However, I don't really see a problem with it.

The skype thing seems sketchy.  Shouldn't the game and the world be seperate?

I agree 100%

 

You say as you post to an OOC medium with your character name.

In an OOC manner no less, most likely for the purposes of gaining a credit for your character.  Having said that I actually agree with Tema.

hoho

But I get where you're coming from

An old saying comes to mind for me that I believe pretty much sums this up. "All is fair in love and war."

Skype is questionable for getting people online, but beyond that it becomes OOC. So you could have everyone login and then ask ICly if anything interesting is going on and then someone could respond that your city is under siege or whatever they summoned you for (or they could type war and notice that the enemy was losing control of a village). It should not be used for anything else, unless the IC/OOC knowlegde line is deleted. I don't do skype, and so hope there happens to be combat when I log on, otherwise I go to RPing. Ideally you should just logon when you have time to play, fight if possible and you want to, and do other stuff when there is no fighting possible (RPing, bashing, catching up on news, etc).

..

I think its fine.

I'm down with using rp shields to talk ooc ic. You can even use the sad argument of "it occurs in the zmud/cmud/mudlet window so it must be legit!" Skype/Aim/Yahoo messenger/Text messages are all out of character. It's pretty lame that a game is so important to you that you're willing to harrass the crap out of your e-friends to come play a not-so-pivotal role in an imaginary text conflict that will be replayed in about 18hrs.

 

You should be using skype for a higher purpose, like e-dates or nakedness.

 

Stay classy.

I was going to write eleven paragraphs of emo-ramblings about OOC cliques and Skype ruining entire games, but the post above sums up everything I wanted to say.

There are more important things doing in the real world

Honestly could care less, to each their own! Not a big fan of combat personally!

It isn't fair. But you know what? Its not like 85% of people in these games actually roleplay anyway.

Meh. I don't really think it's unfair, no. Plus no real way to stop it, if for some reason they wanted to.

Does a person want to be notified? Call them up. It's what friends do.

 

Don't bug people.

 

Don't cheat.

Common sense wins out, usually.

Like any video game this is not the reality of things.  Good friends work together and form teams to develop and work on the content.  One of the greatest successes of doing that end-game boss or raiding that tomb or even just following a group for combat it is all about little successes.  Each developing you're character in the way or shape they want to take form.  You honestly think its bad for a text mmo?  When people half the time don't even read the contents of a room to room basis?  Or even really care about the love crafted into each distinct room?  So long as can just grow plants or gather resources needed?*laughs happily* 

 

Like anything in life, progression to make things easier is what draws in a crowd, but what gets people to stay is depth of content.  Yes it is a bit annoying to have such a convience to quickly set things up from an OOC perspective.  Though it doesn't change the flow of the IN-WORLD content.  This is just like what is said about idling and why people sit around for things to do once hitting endgame content.  Its the lack of wanting interest but desire to keep in-world like a active beacon and keep records of current situations.  Always prepared, but most the time, dead to the world around them.

 

((edited for spelling errors))

They are going to anyway. Besides, a well organized raid will have already done it's damage before they can skype their friends over.

It's called metagaming and against the rules, so no it's technically not fair. Though, to be completely frank, if you're playing with your friends and talking on chat and go "lol, they're raiding again", is it your fault if they all sign on? Also, with the advent of things like the IRE toolbar that lets you know when and how people are dying, do you expect people to stay offline because they have to be superduper honest and respect IC/OOC separation?

That's the point

I mean, if you look at it in-game wise, it's like waking up your comrades for battle

Well if you put it like that?

 

While, yes, people often do coordinate over Skype or actual cell phones when things like flares, raids, or riots pop up, and that sort of metagaming IS illegal (shrub-worthy, since it's a violation of seconds), it's even harder now adays to say that it is happening legitimately.

 

People can just be browsing, or trolling Youtube, when they notice allies/enemies dying on the toolbar. Sure, it's metagaming, but it's metagaming promoted by IRE.

 

This isn't behaviour that can be snooped, and while made blatantly obvious by how coincidentally and often it occurs, it can't really be halted.

 

So, no point in complaining. Just learn to deal with it. Some people take games waaaay too seriously if they are halting their real life for it.

 

How do I get it? I just want it for curiousity's sake. (Everyone knows I suck at combat, anyway.)

I can see how it's frustrating but it seems fair enough to me. The website tickers show significant events to people outside the games anyway.

Yeah the toolbar, not only does it show deaths, on MKO it announces sieges, so you don't even need to skype.

Why would this be unfair?  the alternative would be to stay AFK while waiting for action, which is worse.

It can be unfair if only one side does it. If the raiders organized it OOC, then those being raided calling for OOC help isn't such a bad thing. Ideally everything would be IC, but you know how that goes.

it's fine, we can already use third parties to perform aliases and such.

Metagaming!

I don't even like OOC clans.

Whether or not you agree with it, it happens.  If you feel you must rp around it, play it off as having had a bad scouting report.  Ambush!

No. Unless you want to go the insane route or whatever.

since it's like running around waking up the troops.

When I'm logged out, I'm logged out for a reason.  

 

True story, an Achaean I know created a character in Lusternia so they could chase me down and deliver a message that someone else entirely wanted to talk to me in Achaea.   That's just ridiculous, and sad.   

True facts.

I know Salvar has been guilty of logging into game because someone told him something interesting was happening, event wise or other, that he wouldn't want to miss or needed to be present for. I guess this is a choice on my part to allow myself to be accessible to a certain extent outside the game.

 

Whereas I'm not really a fan of the cavalry coming in mid-raid - I also can choose to just not be a part of that particular RP scenario as it happens.  I've tried to force Salvar into a model of no OOC clans if it can be helped to preserve the role play atmosphere (Plus, we all know the drama llamas that drag things IC OOC IC OOC IC OOC and can't respect the barriers!)

 

In the end, we each have our own experience of the game and who's to say?

It's not like you can ban anyone for this anyway. And it's a game after all; it should be fun.

Sad when we're even ready to just jump in at a moment's notice. Get a real life?

...is in situations where a city like Shallam that is always on the defensive feels like they can never raid, because if they do, 10 more defenders will log in instantly. But...there, it's just exacerbating an existing problem.

 

Other than that situation, which is understandably frustrating, I don't see why anyone would ever think there's something wrong with this. If people like to raid/raid defend, it's not wrong to let them know something exciting is going on.

Yes, it is unfair.

Wooohooo not caring is awesome!

Why would anyone want to mix reality and Achaea? Seriously... I try my best to keep the two apart!

Immature people in high school or fresh to college play this game and unfortunately being popular to them is more important than fairness.  Maybe in 10 years they will realize the error of their ways.  Probably not though.  People often need to think they came upon the right of course of action on their own.  Otherwise their pride often gets in the way.  People behave like retards humping a doorknob in this way...

Just because someone calls doesn't mean anyone has to answer. Besides, if they really wanted to defend, they'd probably be online defending anyhow.

Im not opposed to the idea.  Power to the people.

It's unavoidable, and it shouldn't be regulated, it's just disappointing when a fair fight suddenly becomes a curb stomping because timely reinforcements appeared from nowhere.

OOC + Metagame. So No

Kinda like making an OOC post to get a credit? I'll take it. :D

...and your friends have been contacting you to join up for things all over (not just IRE). You know, a phone call or IM to join up in some XP runs on D2? Hey, I'm going to start some Co-ops in Res2, wanna get in on it? Let's own some newbs in MW2? So on, so on.

 

Beating your chest indignantly over Skype'd defense of a raid (or invited to be a raider) is a larger example of other opportunities to be drawn into the MUD in the meta-fashion (helping with a quest, help me find a .jpg of someone's map, point me in the direction of a wiki that talks about the game's history, someone's going to have his or her IC wedding, someone's getting their dragon ceremony).

Vadi got the first word in on the plain, unvarnished answer: it's a game, enjoy it the way you enjoy it.

it happens for more then just raiding.

For me, most of my OOC friends that I speak with outside of the game have characters on both main factions of Midkemia Online. If I did try to call for backup on Skype, they would probably just join those already attacking me just for me having the cheek to ask, heh.

Sounds reasonable to me.

I always thought metagameing was against the rules but now i can't find any of the help files saying it is or isn't.

...have a rule against telling someone via an ooc mechanic to come log in.

 

Whether it's against the rules to log off one character in order to log in on a different one, because you saw that that team was raiding/being raided, is another question, since that could count as using one character's knowledge to affect the other's, or something, maybe.

This topic was a big one during the return of the war system. On one hand, seeing troops marching at your city is scary and disheartening if the CWHO list is 3 people, so being able to buzz people is a "phew" option - but on the other hand, trying to plan tactics like capturing and marching and going through the effort of getting HG items like the night-eye just to help monitor enemy numbers...only to have that not matter because the who list suddenly explodes because of AIM calls for help...is very frustrating.

infact when i get my cell turned back on, feel free to call me or text me if we get raided or you another ally to raid with. in fact, call or text if theres a revolt or aetherhunt going as well... and while we're on the subject I wish someone would call or text when there's an event like the ascention going on too!

 

cant guarantee i'll be able to join in, ya know work an all. but if i can i will!

ugh. work. it's a bitch.

because I see it a lot ... but in the end it's a good thing.

 

Logging on/off in general is so completely ooc anyway, "resting" doesn't quite cover it. So, a little bit of finger waggling now and then is required to maintain an otherwise immersive atmosphere.

If nobody calls their buddies, nobody's gonna come out and play. And like what someone side earlier, it's basically 'waking up' the people 'resting.' It's not breaking RP. And if you're in combat, you should know by now that mechanics>RP.

 

Plus people only say it's not fair since they're not doing it, y'know.

or that it makes them get killed in the raid they were doing.

I don't think that using Skype or IMs or other forms of communication is any different from calling people from off plane. I personally do not do it, nor do I know any who have done it (to my knowledge) but I don't think it is any more (or less) inappropriate than those who say, "This is the time the entire City sleeps, let us raid now." or "Their big guns are not here, let us go." Each taking advantage of OOC knowledge.of time zones or player, not character, habits. In a real world conflict, warriors are not totally inaccesible, and can be called to duty in time of action, whether it be door-to-door rousting, raid sirens, or sophisticated equipment.

true

Of course this is ok. What better way to advertize for the game.

It's just a game......

Do I care if people run around IG and act like idiots as they spout ooc things? If it is around me, yes. Do I care if people are organizing IG events while on a chat program ooc? No. No matter how hard or well we rp, the truth is a lot of IG events are planned in an ooc manner and I don't think it matters if I get on skype and let my friend know that something interesting is going on that they may like to be a part of. It isn't unfair because this is a Game.

It is most likely virtually impossible to stop anyone from Skyping to get others to join a raid or finding out about one.  Any instant messenger is no different.  People text or video friends and ask for help. It is going to happen.  It is really lame I think for people to do this given it is MASSIVELY OOC even by my standards, but what can ya do?

 

Another problem is people logging out or going off on a boat as soon as a raid starts.  That is bad too, but what is really really bad is when people log off so they don't have to fight in a raid where they will be forced to kill friends of their alt because they want to be popular, don't want to kill their IM and Skype friends and whatnot.  Perhaps avoid being given crap from their friend for killing them or attacking their city.  This is just majorly OOC.  IRL loyalties should NOT exist in Achaea and loyalties should not transfer between characters.  Your character is evil, theirs is not.  A raid has started.  Kick their arse!  Besides if they hold it against you they are not really your friend anyways.....  People who do this have no backbone or honor.

I support this comment.

Thanks!  I do try!  The transfer of loyalties is a huge problem :(

Agreed.

+

+

people may also just not be in the mood for PVP.

What he said!

Hehehe, I knew this would be a hotly contested topic when I saw it... *hums*

This is metagaming!

You are late! :D

i agree, it's unfair

It's only fair if it comes with free Cr.

 

I don't think it's that big of a deal, but I see how it can be annoying and be seen as too much OOC.  

Here is possibly a good idea someone just mentioned to me.  A little observation with a prime or alt can determine who is notified via Skype to come in and who isn't to help out.  When raiding just target these people and kill them first :)  I already know one or two people that do this.  That will teach them and it is perfectly acceptable to do this.

 

Point:  Find out the people that hop in and are loyalty kissers and just have the raid kill them :)  They will quickly find it not worth it and probably stop.  I have done this in other games and it works wonderfully.  :)  Not a thing they can do about it either heh

I feel feelings of feelings toward the topic.

eh

eh

I agree with whatever the next person says.

This really isn't any different from players going 'Hey! There's an awesome RP event going on, log in log in!' on Skype. Is it annoying when that side already has a ton of people? Sure. But in these cases you really have to depend on player restraint (a dying concept, I know) because there's just simply no possible way to police this at all. What then, tell someone -not- to log on? Of course not.

Wish we did it.

You can't even come up with an original name...

 

And the best you can do is an insult? How about you can't even come up with a good counter-arguement?

On the other hand, it might be be 'unfair' to raid when people are asleep.

And people have been doing that for years. :/

Wow, the topics about alts, skype, loyalties, RP justifications, OCC planning etc... Is overwhelming! Nothig can be regulated and enforced anyhow. I guess that common sense and good taste should rule. Do something for you, do something for the others, do something for the gane. That's all I have to say 'bout that.

Sup

Couldn't enforce this if you wanted to. The whole arguement about it being unfair because its OOC is slightly invalid because i could justify buying credits is BS because of the unfair advantage it gives players and the only viable means to aquire large amounts of credits is a completely OOC method.

I get that people get angry about stuff like this. You think you got this, that it's 'fair numbers' and the deciding factor will be skill.

But then x number of people from the other side log on and suddenly it's not so 'fair.' So yes, it crosses IC/OOC lines, but some people play this game for the PVP, and they shouldn't be denied that enjoyment. Admittedly it'd be in better spirit of things to just loiter around the game while you have computer time, but certainly not everyone has that luxury.

On the flipside, I spend every 'free' moment I have on MKO, much to my academic detriment, and I know I'd be annoyed if someone came on some instant messenger to ask me to fight while I wasn't on MKO, even if I was really into fighting. >_> So yeah.

IC decisions are based upon the IC situation and my character would find it unfair. As a player I can understand it.

 

 

as long as they vote at TMS while they're online :-)

a grey area for me

I like the picture for this article. Not sure how it relates to skype, but now I'm thinking of skype as some sort of giant parasite...

This is a roleplaying game last I checked.  It states that efforts are made to enforce roleplay.  Yes, it is also a pvp game, but according to my reading and dealing with the admins in the past it is been made clear to me that it is first and foremost a roleplaying game.  I am not perfect at the roleplaying and perhaps I am lazy about fulfilling house requirements(!), but I feel I usually keep within the lines of roleplay!  So, thus given that this game is about roleplaying with a pvp flair, I am of the opinion that Achaea should make some attempt to ENFORCE this.  It cannot be done 100%, but there are countermeasures that can be taken to discourage these Skyper's, IMers from employing their ignorant and selfish 'I can do whatever I want attitude'.  Whatever they want is limited by the official rules IRE and Tecton set down.

How to police?  This may not be completely successful, if at all, but one idea is to have everyone in the city who is currently logged on instantly put into a raid pool when a raid is declared or sanctioned by the Gods and that anyone that logs in after that cannot join and to try and help is forbidden and punishable.  I feel like we are fighting against a buncha immature college kids here who feel personal freedoms apply here or some crap.  People cannot do whatever the hell they want and this is IRE's domain anyways.  They make the rules.  If people only want to login at certain times then they are really playing the wrong game anyways.  TONS of games out there for this.  FPS games are *perfect* for this!  If you want pvp go play fps.  *rolls eyes*  This problem cannot be curtailed completely, but you can certainly make life difficult for them.  In their shoes I would not bother and find another game.  Why put up with all this controversy if it angers you so? Find another game.  I don't want to see anyone leave Achaea, but if it angers you...