IRE Asks: Would you play a hardcore character?

Permadeath MMO game

Permanent character death is often associated with games that encourage griefing, full corpse looting and very little to no roleplay value. There's a certain stigma attached to permadeath that hardcore MMOs haven't necessarily helped dissuade, and maybe it's too untamed of a beast for mainstream MMOs. But there's no denying that a niche crowd exists for it, and no one knows more about niche crowds than Iron Realms!

 

Losing your character would be extremely disheartening to any IRE player, especially if you have valuables such as artefacts and real estate. but what if the option were available to new characters? On one hand it could add a certain level of realism to the faction based PvP, especially with the recent war systems, but it could also increase the level of throw-away griefer alts.

 

If such an option were available, would you give it a try? How would it change the Iron Realms environment for better and for worse? Should hardcore characters start out at a higher level? Would you try to permadeath us IRL for trying such a thing?

 

Comment below!

Comments

Only on a hardcore server.

I wouldn't like it or participate in it, but perhaps it should be made available for those who'd like to do it.

If there was hardcore, but without the griefing, sure.

Yes

Yes

I dont think so.

It would be horrid to add permadeath to Achaea.

To the death!

I would with a new character. I haven't had the chance, but I would like to play an RP game with permadeath. The griefing would be horrendous without rules, though.

Hardcore characters aren't for me.

it does depends on what you would gain from it.. I mean if all it meant was "Death -> erased" then I doubt anyone would.

That would be a good way of limiting your play time...

Do we really want that?

 

I have put so, so, so much effort into getting Taria to where she is, both level wise and community wise.

 

Because of all the rp I've put into her, I'd hate for that to be lost over a single death.

 

permadeath for ascension events would be fun, but then again there rarely is an ascension.

Permadeath instead of suicide as an option to enrich roleplay for those wanting it is something I could support. Could be interesting for alts.

I most certainly would.  I would support a permadeath after certain age as well. One time, when we arrive into Maya's Halls she does not grant us another extention on life.  All our possessions could be willed to another player or players, probably our ig family member...  Our new character though starting fresh could have some background ties with those already dead... could be most interesting to have several generations and rich histories of family clans for example.  Cemeteries full of memories... definitely would be worth a try.

in a new game designed around the concept. You'd have to be extra carful even when just bashing. PVP would have to be heavily restricted because IRE games are already interesting enough in the combat area that they breed griefers from time to time as is. I've put weeks of playing time in several characters on several different games over the years and I would be MOST unhappy to lose that to some random character 2 weeks old that got the drop on me.

 

But yes, I'd be willing to try it if the environment was balanced aroudn the concept.

"milk a bull"... hahaha!

OT, though.. I probably won't. Beats having to continually restart over and over, coz at some point in time, anyone will die at least once.

My idea on this is that each character starts out at level one but instead of getting five credits from every 5 levels you could instead gain 50 and then use them for lessons or save up for arties.  This would, in my opinion, make it so everyone can have a more fair advantage and still be able to build their characters the same way they do in a non-hardcore setting.  Another way I can think of a hardcore mode is to look at this in a non-permadeath setting by adding in a special zone in any one of the main games and that this area would have a "hardcore" mode which activates upon entrance and displays a message that tells you such that instead of permadeath a good chunk of experience (a few levels worth) would be removed from your chracter upon death.  But, the part that may entice players is that experience gain is greatly increased in this zone to the point that if you are smart you can earn a nice amount of levels before dieing and losing a few.  I'm not sure what the rest of you think about this but I think it might be a nice little addition to the game if done correctly.

I think it would be the end of people spending money on the game.  Maybe it could be a "perk" of elite membership

In general, I like permadeath systems. But the game generally needs to be designed around them from the start. So adding it after the fact wouldn't work too well.

Lusternia doesn't really have an atmosphere to make a hardcore character worth it, so much grief capacity and a steep learning curve would just make it frustrating beyond worth.

I've done Hardcore Diablo 2, and it was awful, especially when you manage to stay alive for -so- long and get to a high level, then one mistake and it's all gone.

 

If you could invest with multiple characters and multiplaying was permitted, then perhaps, so that gear and such could be shared, but otherwise I think it would deter a -lot- of people.

 

I could however, see people having a choice to turn their character hardcore, and perhaps in doing so, it grants them like 40% xp bonus or some such, to help make up for it in some way.

I have a hard time focusing on more than one character, so perma-death would give me a chance to restart.. however it would be nice if all credits spend on the character would be given to your new one when it dies.

 

no.

no fun if you can't go all out

I'd try it at least once.

hrm

+1 to new chars

and...

credit!

There is a certain appeal to playing a hardcore character, although I think the more time I invested in said character, the more I would be distraught at his/her death and deletion.

Overall, I am happy playing softcore!

I find that it's easiest to deal with a character's death when you make it part of the character's concept that it's a thing that could or even should happen to them. If the possibility they might die for good never enters your mind, though, then it's usually pretty ugh if it actually happens.

Surely it would promote RP over PvP? 

 

No, because if talking is going to result in a greater chance of dying you shut up and just kill.

Not in a game you spend money on

PvP is RP for a lot of people, why not.

I wouldn't do it with one of my real charecters, but with an alt, sure.

Midkemia, too many hostage and pyrobomb griefers.

Long as there are multiple stages of death with differing strength resurrection abilities it is not so bad. Take the rpg dungeon seige for example, you had to be knocked out, killed, burned, and soul exercised before perma death.

What if there are multiple planes of existence and the afterlife was a playable stage like any other? The rpg Valkyrie profile brings that to mind for me with the whole concept of underworld, midgard, asgard and reincarnation.

I liked how Imperian started work on an after life. Even after being defeated in battle one could help aid their allies by buying them passage back. 

Your points are interesting and those would be intersting mechanics, but what you describe is not permadeath. Permadeath at the minimum results in the loss of control of your character.

maybe not permadeath, but back to start? as in, all your lessons learned are re-rolled into actual lessons, or credits, etc... permadeath sounds terribly permanent. heh.

personally, I think it would make the games suck a little bit, what with all the things it takes to get to a high level

if it didn't take so much time and money to play, maybe it would be bearable

Won't work! Period.

Yes

I actually have a hardcore character that has yet to die. Though I wouldn't  tell anyone, just for the simple fact that I would probably be targeted for player killing.

I wouldn't try it with any game I've invested money in, and possibly to invest more in in the future--but I do understand the appeal. In the D&D campaigns I'm currently in, all of the DMs agree that if your character dies--they are dead. Once they fail their saving throws, you cannot pay an insane amount of gold to get them back (which apparently some people do?). We also play with maiming; for instance, if a character gets a huge battle wound, it stays with them forever. A mage melts the side of your face off, but you survive? Yeah, you keep that.

That may be impossible to do but, man, that bit would be kind of cool.

I'd try with an alt maybe. But doesn't sound like too much fun :(

no

no

 

permadeath is just so harsh.

I certainly wouldn't. I die too often as it is.

hmm...

I would, but it would be a totally different game. Meh

credits

Nope

bears are naturally hardcore. but i still won't play a hardcore character.

no.

Learning combat requires lots of death, and non-combat arena is an important part as well. If this permadeath, or semi-permadeath was implemented, it would just plain suck for learning combat for the first time, which would screw over truly new players vs. those already established.

No, I would never do hardcore because I am not that into combat and advancing is too much work to risk losing for that.

never never never again

I'd only go for this if it were an option that you could select for a character. It doesn't make sense to spend real cash on a character to learn all kinds of skills and buy all kinds of artifacts, only to see that cash wasted after your character dies. So I'd want the option to be able to choose whether my character was playing hardcore mode or not.

Would encourage a hell of a lot more teamwork for staying alive, that's for sure.

would be intresting

Yes! Conflict would be much more meaningful, and the game would just be so damn exciting once you get into a serious argument with someone. Especially if you still had an arena for sparring and such, though

Wow

What a different beast it would be.

I definately would!

it could work if after death all your belongings pass to your "son" aka your next character... but still not the best way to have the game evolve.

NO

Just NO. Unless my artifacts went to my new character, and credit investments

 

If it was an option, I would give it a try. It doesn't sound very appealing, though.

i'd like to mention that bears are innately hardcore.

If you played a bear, you would not have to make the choice, you just would automatically be hardcore

Nuuh. I do too much stupid stuff, hardcore won't be one of them.

But I would try it for sure.

I put too much work into stuff for it to be gone in an instant by some random jerkface. There are enough jerkfaces in the games I play as it is... let them go play hardcore!

^

Permanent death would turn me way off from playing.

permadeath?! maybe with an alt.

Honors lines would be meaningful.

I might try it, but there'd have to be a smaller crowd, stricter rules, and a much more stringent upkeep of them from the Admins. Plus, there'd have to be a tight rein on those who essentialy make their strength up JUST by killing others. Maybe have them start out hardcore, but after they reach a certain point, they earn more "lives" for their character. Means I wouldn't finally get to Aspect after five years and then die permanently in some stupid shard battle. I mean, trying to get to level 80, I lost 79 over a hundred times before I lost count. And it STILL took me forever.

Nope, no, and definitely not.

I wouldn't with winterlynn but maybe with a different char to see what it was like. 

Sure, I'd try it. Games aren't built for that, but sure. If I didn't lose my main :D

My mind is split on two about the option of Hardcore play.

 

One the one hand, there'd be a huge opportunity for a lot more fun gameplay; on the other, I'd probably get too attached to my character.

...if Hardcore-mode credits were a penny each.

 

They'd probably have to start out higher level, and with some skills already there, and an easier way to gain skills. But if they existed... I might give it a try, once in a while. I could actually see some good RP to come out of it.

The existence of death - and I don't mean the loss of XP - is a pretty big motivating force in life, i'd say ;P

oof, just finished reading "Ready Player One", about an MMO where the avatars are removed when they die... sounds so harsh.

nope

never ever ever

Credit comment.

Permadeath can be a terrific mechanic in the right game (I'm playing a handful of rouge-alikes at the moment that exemplify this), but for Achaea and the other IRE games, I wouldn't even consider playing with permadeath.  PvP combat is a darwinian environment and even the best duelers die occasionally. 

It also hinders the primary revenue model, as I doubt people would be as willing to spend actual paper on items, skills, housing, pets, etc with the possibiliy of loss on death.

so far, so good. But I haven't fought any other people, so...

no

no

would I get phat loot for playing?

Only to milk a bull

Can't see myself doing it in a MMO game.

No, I wouldn't

yes an alt I would happy kill for the cause

I'd play it, but I'd start a new character to do so, and I would never invest anything but time in him.

A financial investment would just be silly

no

I've spent so much time and a fair amount of money, i'd never want to lose it all from one small mistake I may have made in combat.

It's something a game should be designed around and not something just thrown into it. That would necessitate some RP enforced environment, which would likely drive down membership to the most dedicated. For that reason, I doubt you could make it anything other than a gimmick in a more traditional MUD. Plenty of other posters have described their attachment to their character's accomplishments, and that is something that would be hard to overcome in your usual player.

A better solution would be to revive something like the old remort system in older MUDs, which you might call "retirement." With that you could allow players of a certain age or a similar requirement to start over as a new adventurer and with a new name, but with a portion of their previous characters' purchases under their belt. That would allow the appearance of players "dying" in the world and also give established players an incentive to shelve a character for something new.

I *REALLY* like this idea. Take note, IRE!

Maybe if lessons weren't so hard to get...

a fair point

But it would need to be in a super RPI MUD

i'm not hardcore at all.

I recently started playing a 'virtuous' Luminary in Aetolia. Let's see if he can be hardcore.

I still don't think I would but I would support a much bigger penalty for dying - not xp - but maybe 24 hours out of the game after you hit level 20 - not before - people are still playiong stuff then.

 

It would return that element of not ignoring danger,

 

You could even sell artefacts that would make this time shorter.

 

And priest rezzes would become more valuable as they would get you back earlier

No

I wouldn't play a hardcore character. It would be difficult to put a lot of effort into fleshing out a character and to spend money on lessons and artefacts, only to have them killed and lose all your investment.

No

No

dead alts. So many...

uuu...

not.

makes all posts more interesting... thought you should know. :P

I do. Zealous good.

no.

too fatalistic

sounds like a lot of fun

the game would certainly be quite different

 

I have played many characters, so why not.

credit

Nope

yep

im hardcore

Shameful credits

It would have to be fairly easy to avoid dying which isn't the case for most games.

report in!

No, MUDs are for building characters. That said, it can be interesting to have permadeath as a way to retire characters.

but probably not.

Permadeath at best works right up until the point your game lags or disco players and then they quit in mass.

If permadeath were an option, there would have to be some protection from players who do not have permadeath enabled.

Also, I don't think it would be so viable in such a PvP oriented MUD like Achaea, or at least the mentality would have to change, so that only one death might happen in an entire raid, or else over the course of one raid, your whole city might die. Basically the game would have to change so that it's much harder to kill people or else everyone would just be dying left and right with the current combat system. Also, the potential for griefing is pretty high, given that there are no restrictions on who can attack who (which currently is not too bad since you just lose some exp even if that does happen).

Imagin if they added permadeath and changed nothing. Walk into a new area, spring a deathtrap and bye bye.

hardcore? No mudsex for me please.

uh huh

yes

i would

I've played a few MUDs with permadeath, but they have been entirely designed around the concept. IRE's style just doesn't fit.

If there was some mechanical way to easily delete/recreate characters that transferred credits as well

 

it would be weird, though, if your character's faction were death-centred.  "Let's make novices undergo ritual sacrifice to learn about death!" Ah, sh--

I wouldn't, I die so often as it is.

i don't know about a hardcore character but i'd like to see a form of looting in pvp deaths

would have to make it harder to get kills

Nope

Couldn't see myself playing a "hardcore" mode character in a game where real-life currency investments come into play, too much potential for griefing, plus you'd have people demanding rollbacks every time there was the slightest bit of server lag since they had no control over their characters demise.

It has a certain appeal in that you have to seriously consider every action more carefully than you normally would. My main concern would be the inevitable influence of people who just wish to grief others. MUDs are already a big investment to your character, and having a hardcore server only increases that investment, all of which can be taken from you with any careless word or action.