Where are the Thief Classes in MMORPGs?

assassin thief

Since the dawn of role playing games, classes have followed age old archetypes - the Mage does a lot of damage over time, the Warrior soaks a lot of damage, and the Rogue usually does a lot of burst damage from behind the target. Now, this wouldn't be so bad if there was even one thing to spice it up between MMORPGs, but it's the same across the board. You can't really play a Thief in most MMORPGs, you can only play a rogue wielding two daggers that is called a Thief.

 

While searching for "thief classes in MMORPGs", I came across a forum thread where one user posts his gripes with the current status of the stealth / rogue classes in MMOs:

 In my experience, every single MMO out there treats the "thief" class(es) as a lightly armored fighter who usually inflicts extra damage against an opponent when he is attacking from behind. Sometimes these so-called thieves also know how to use poison, have some skill with throwing daggers or shooting bows/crossbows, can pick pockets (for very small change). But, basically, they are not a true thief class... they are just, like I said, a variation of a fighter.

I'm compelled to agree with these statements, because you can't really steal anything as the Thief class in most MMORPGs, and if you can, it's a really small amount of pocket change -- generally the same amount you'd get if you killed them. In most MMORPGs, stealing from players isn't even an option (unless, of course, you scam them, but this is generally against ToS). So is there even really a point to play a Rogue if you want to play a Thief? Some would say no, some would argue about the philosophical morality problems of in-game theft, while some others would point you to Iron Realms.

 

Thief Skills in Iron Realms Games

In the MMORPG Achaea, there are multiple classes which are perfectly capable of being a Thief -- not attacking from behind, not fighting with daggers, stealing, and stealing a LOT of stuff. Serpents are one class that are capable of hypnotising their targets to give them their things -- of course, there are counters to this, but what game has a more stylish system of theft than that? Even in the extremely popular game The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, theft is simply looting items that don't belong to you. No hypnotism there.

 

Rather than commanding them to give you their things, you can even get creative with it. You can have them put their things in a hat that will magically reset to you, or if you're in a postal office, have them put their things in a letter and mail it to you. Stalk someone who is bashing and order the target to remove their pack the second they go to offer their corpses to their favorite Deity! With timing, there is little your target can do! There are countless strategies just waiting to be thought of and used. 

 

 But wait, some might argue that isn't really theft. It's just having them give you their things. This is somewhat true, but that is part of why it is balanced in Achaea. It would hardly be fair or even remotely balanced if a thief class could just slip into your pocket and take all of your gold or your precious items. By allowing players to force their target to do something in order to steal, Achaea opens theft up and makes it available to any class with an ability to force their target to do things (which is quite a few). This is part of why in Achaea, you may play your character how you want to, rather than being suffocated by class archetypes. 

 

Author: Rean Moliuvia

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Comments

Theft has become way less common nowadays though. They tend to get VERY hated and shortlived. 

The death of RP and advent of players that play MUDs like it's Halo has caused this. That, and those players that have no concept of OOC/IC barriers. They take every IC action against them as an OOC insult. Sure, your -toon- lost gold, but can't -you- admire the ingenuity and cleverness it took on the thief's part to get you to give it to them. People just need to chill out and enjoy the game for what it is. A game.

I completely agree. Also, the administration in itself has taken many actions against thievery, such as preventing serpents from opening doors while phased. Serpents as a class have become much less exciting, because they aren't very good at combat or bashing, and what little point their thieving had has been removed.

Serpents can still be good at combat. I still find the class very cool, though thievery has become harder, but still not impossible

Yes, they can be, but as a Serpent myself, I can say my initial draw to the class was the thieving.

Serpents still kill me

There are the nice ones!

 

You might not have met them yet. Maybes.

Nice :)

We even have players called Halo and Halos!@

Halos rp's pretty well. Despite living in the same city as Halo, though, not so sure about him.

well, I'm Canis and there's someone named Kanis. go figure. he's older though, so looks like i'm the imitator... at least, my doesn't look like a Kardashian's.

If only there was ingenuioty rather than write a script, press F1 with everyone you meet, rob newbies only.

I disagree. I can't even remember the last time theft was RPed. It almost always is about farming players for wealth.

Theft, in RP? Come on...

Mhm.

Having recently started Achaea I can say I was robbed at level five, so no I don't admire any ingenuity or cleverness that it took on the thief's part, because there is none, and thievery is stupid. Which is why I don't play Achaea anymore.

Proper theft defensive is incredibly easy. If you do not have proper theft defense then you deserve to get robbed. If you go afk you might as well just hand it to them. Either way the victim deserves it given it is in their power to so easily prevent it.

Yeah, IRE makes it possible to steal, but any decent system should prevent it without a problem. Too many people would be upset about a "real" theif class, that can steal super effectively and get away with it.

Agreed.  Relatvively easy prevention is a must. 

 

it is pretty sad really

mhm

mhm

true

true

false

Agreed.

I agree

So then they only rob newbies, which is not the best advert for the game.

 

but I suppoose its how they learn

antitheft is mostly common sense.

it's definitely not socially fulfilling to be a theif...unless they can manage to say they only steal from the rich to give to the poor. hehe

If there's a proper thieves guild out there, it might be. It has to be a kind of secret society though rather than a full blown 'legal' guild recognized by a city.

MKO has it. Mockers. ^_^

The Mockers are a joke, truly.

That would always work better with more guilds -at the moment you join Krondor and the city tell you you can join the honest guards or the secretive thieves.  Now it doesn't take a genius to check Guildwho and assume everyone else in a Mocker.

Being called the Mockers while existing as a thieves guild and all the while saying that they aren't, pretty much makes sense, i guess.

Someone should make one. Don't think there is one in Achaea.

hehe, that is so passe.

dear god. Do they even try to think about the debates about things like theft and artis in their own games before posting articles that only people in those games will read about how great and awsome it is in IRE games? Heck, we know this stuff, we play these games. Insead of hunting through random forums, hunt through IRE forums and maybe wwrite a meaningful article that will do more then simply spark the same discussions.

At least we arn't talking about item malls anymore

Are they making the game unbalanced?

I think they want to foster debates though.

that's what it seems like, except they don't adress the debate topic in the article, so much, as to simply say "x is good in IRE games".

 

I would love a theft, or even an artifact topic that talked seriously about the pros and cons, or presented a logical point of view rathr than simply bringing up a contentious topic and giving us encouragement to talk. We all know these debates, they just moved them.

Some of these articles seem a bit too shamless plug.

 

...it's marketing. And "moving the arguments" here means that I, as an Achaean adventurer, don't have to dig through Imperian fora in order to find deprectated arguments that I've read plenty of times in a different setting.

 

We play this game -- some pay, some don't. The debate is encouraged and rewarded. I think a lot of people like the meta-light forum approach here to get a broad view of what's going on and perhaps what a hot topic is as opposed to waiting for the thirteenth posting about raging or players' pictures answered by the same clutch of twenty-six ardent players.

 

Comment fodder :D

Agreed,

But the subject is fun!

I think both.

I think both.

We're not the audience for these articles; we already play IRE games. Our comments improve the ranking these articles will get on search engines.

Works for me!

"At least we arn't talking about item malls anymore"

+1^1000

Dumbest article ever.

item malls are fun, though.

:)

:)

:o)

:o)

hOnK?

if you are ...

Theft isnt awsome though... its quite terrible and one of the many things the game would be better without...

Is that MMORPGs have respawn, and the thief characters are often nooblets with no gear who don't care if you kill them after they stole your backpack. Achaea has its share and seeking retribution can be kind of futile. Flagging them for PvP becomes even less effective when the thief in question is a high-level char with many escape abilities.

Absolutely agree here, Kurios. I've seen some games where theft is done very intelligently, and other games where it's blatantly stupid. In IRE, theft is blatantly stupid. If I just made a big transaction, I either have to quick buy credits or quick run to the bank and pray someone doesn't somehow hypnotize me to convince me to give my stuff to them. I'd rather there be some sort of skill/roll where they reach into my backpack unnoticed to try and take a *handfull* of gold, not 70,000!

I play as a theif there, there is a skill role that dictates how much one can steal (if succesful) from ones pockets. Of course if one fails, expect your head to seperate from your shoulders, or much much worse. (Like being groped and gently caressed.)

I much prefer MKO thieves to Achaea thieves, MKO rogues just need a bit more ability at stealing items instead of just gold, and they'll be perfect (IMO)

 

That, the skill and not the consequences of getting caught, sounds much more preferrable than the forced-action abilities.

Hmm

Lusternia is complicated enough I think without rampant theft...

Exactly this. Win or lose good interaction between characters should be enjoyable to both players but 95% of the time with theft it is just an annoyance that slows you down and doesn't add anything to the target's experience.

/agree

Whiners, whiners everywhere :p

You can have your theft dear when I can loot your corpse for stealing from me :P

I have no problem chasing you down and throwing kittens at you.

ouch!

Seriously.

Fear me and Scrambles the Kitten

"Regular" being many thieves justused to want to steal to do one or two things: 1) make people really funny raging mad, or 2) to be able to make ransom on getting items back.

 

Not regular might be just to tick off a group of people or circle or people. Or if they needed to get a journ al off them that had highly confidential knowledge.

 

Now a days it should be that there are certain quest items that last for say an entire real life day... and perhaps selfishness and other preventative methods could be bypassed legally. So that a another person could "steal" a quest from another. THAT would be more interesting.

 

ADDENDUM: a friend suggested this, which also sounds really interesting: "I say remove stealing from others, and add stealing from mobs"

 

Theft does suck, though I don't think we'd be better off. Allowing theft is just another way of making it seem more like a real alternate world. It happens in RL, why not in the game?

I like theft, I steal from people of certain cities.

It is not easy, but it is exciting.

What's your problem with theft? Thieves become open pk for seven rl days, giving you enough time for retribution.

Heh. They try to make it as realistic as living in a world like this can get. Eliminating thieves would be silly.

or could use a major overhaul.

Pickpocketing mobs would be a neat skill.

I was about to say that the only type of 'good' thieving would be against denizens.

I was about to say that the only type of 'good' thieving would be against denizens.

We have that in MKO !

It can be tedious, and takes a fair bit of spamming and guile for a rather meager, uncertain, payout... but it's there!

And I hate them! D: Stupid blackout whispering.

We know denizens have gold, because they drop it when killed and give it to when infuenced with Charity.

Good point on Charity, it's kinda like stealing with words.

This.

should give it to stealth users

Thieves are always an argh to me

Limit those thieves.. Pesky... But good RP

Fair enough. :-)

we rock

Sneaky thieves would be cool...and yet I'd probably hate them if I wasn't one.

Theft is dumb

..are great for RP. Some of them, anyway. Also known to start wars, too.

Except the roleplaying of any revenge on the thief by the thief is "meh".  Regardless the victim doesn't get anything out of the experience.

They only get nothing out if the thief is a prick who doesn't even attempt to RP with the target. I usually do my best to RP with anyone I have tried to steal, although it doesn't always work out as it did in my head. Particularly with the people who just snub you the moment you try to steal from them D:

Hmm

Not exactly a mature response...though still glad we don't see much theft in Aetolia

I miss the amusing articles!

?

*Helps someone prism into your house so they can rob you blind* :)

I don't like how theft has gotten so easy to overcome, with selfishness early, ect. I also realize that alot of people are going to be verymeanpeople about it, while others will put a bit of RP behind it and make it a decent experience. 

This is somewhat true, but that is part of why it is balanced in Achaea. It would hardly be fair or even remotely balanced if a thief class could just slip into your pocket and take all of your gold or your precious items.
This is really insulting mocking on respected craft of strawman making. Yeah, robbing in Achaea is balanced because a thief uses force to take all of your gold or your precious items instead of pickpocketing to take all of your gold or your precious items. Pass me this weed, bro.

Lol

Lol

I played a game years ago that had hypnotism. Once I found someone autobashing so I walked them to the bank, ordered them to withdraw a lot of gold and give it to me. It must've taken about 10 minutes to do. I still felt guilty, even though I didn't clean him out and the gold was probably all gotten from autobashing.

Should have cleared them out, I would have.  Autobashing is a sin.

I don't really like using any of my characters to steal.

Too much Jedi in me to use Tema for stealing.

Mostly I associate the thief class with assassins in MMOs, rather than the lovable rogue stereotype.

Can actually steal things with hostage, though most people just kill with it. I prefer soulmaster to force people to give me stuff.

I hate serpents and tend not to stick around them, they asked for their cookie back because they had a 'better' cookie that I'd like.

My friends wouldn't stop laughing when I fell for it.. Took off generosity and went to give it to him and then with a snap, dash to the north and a yell, my gold and doll was gone..

 

=(

this is an example of good theft

more thief classes please!

I agree

You're taking one of those hour long discussion-test things and next thing you know, it happens: ZOMGWTF SNAPSNAPSNAP no moar gold. Not fun. Nooot fun.

Don't get robbed

keeps people on their toes.

haha, one word for people in Achaea.... Fen

Oh?

I see your Fen and raise you a Glint.

What's that, what does it do? We have one in Lusternia, too.

As much as I hate getting robbed I will admit the possibility of it ads much to the gaing experiance. Another thieving class that stole in a different way would be an awesome addition i think.

serpentlords rule!

In MKO the rogue, can pickpocket and to a very limited degree shoplift, but the most infamous theif is a mage, Malapardis. Both mages and priests can steal better than a rogue.

Kinda baffling, isn't it?

Yeppp, pretty much.

Monks can steal and infiltrate better than serpents can in most cases, even though serpents are the ones with the actual pickpocketing skill.

Is undoubtedly the perfect example. But he does it because he decided MKO needed a villain to love to hate. Which, if you ask me, is as good a reason as any to timewarp/compel people out of their backpacks. He even stole my horse once. Poor rental beast. I hope it died well.

 

I don't see a problem with theft as a whole it happens out here all the time what is to make the game so different that we don't or can't expect it there.

but it does add some spice to the world

Yes

It does add spice and keeps you on your toes. That is how a lot of people survived in the ancient times after all.

Yes

It does add spice and keeps you on your toes. That is how a lot of people survived in the ancient times after all.

It's interesting to take a look at the stance of theft in other IRE games, seems Achaea is the only one with actual theft, but that is slowly being taken away, although I think Midkemia still has full on theft? idk

...about being robbed, and generally I have nothing with me! Theft is very funny but robbers are more powerful than me in most cases, so I cannot retaliate to teach them good manners!

Eh

I think a thief can be anyone, from a mercenary in hevy armour to a corrupt priest in a Church! But I guess in games it is easier to define a thief into certain stereotypes

If you want to play a real thief come on over to Midkemia

We have enough thieves for now !

This is why I became a serpent. I like the creative methods of theft you can use in these games, and it makes thievery almost a skill in itself.

I've played some games with thieving skills. The earlier versions of Ultima Online allowed you to steal most anything from somebodies inventory. There were weight limits though, dependent on your skill I believe, and there were also perfectly fine thief counters such as paying attention to players approaching you, and obscuring your inventory to make theft take longer.

 

I played another one, a MUD, that allowed you to run into players and steal a random item or amount of gold. A dash and grab.

 

Overall though, I don't think most players should be allowed to so easily ruin the experience of another player, since most people seem to do whatever it is they can get away with that either benefits them or makes them laugh. If there were to be thieving skills, there should be very effective counter-measures and deterrents.

mmm, Lusternia monks. And maybe bards.

They are an interesting class , but scarey in pvp situations if they are able to steal a lot.

 

There are theives in Lusternia?

No, I was referring to the way 'thief combat' was portrayed - sneaky, not all up front.

 

Also, due to Lusternia's big (big big big) focus on organizations, being a thief is basically signing yourself up to pariah-hood.

I hate thieves

Mhm

^

thieving skills should be related to level...

so that way we don't get a bunch of crappy lvl 20s trying to rob, and they actually care about the risk involved while robbing

it would be fun to see more thief classes

I agree

I agree

:)

:)

theives....*sigh*   

I suspect the people who's characters are listed as Achaean that are saying, "Theft is not very common nowadays. Thieve's lives are short-lived." do not actually play Achaea all that much, or are not very immersed in it. Theft is a huge part of the game. Many players consider themselves accomplished because of martial prowess, yet their deeds pale in comparison to the players who have worked hard to lift rare and valuable items from other players over the years. I know thieves who possess extremely rare artifacts of various Guilds (none of which they belong to) and it is pretty nifty.

 

If your bank account has never exceeded 5 million gold sovereigns, you're missing out on a huge part of the game.

Whenever I get money, I spend it. It's like water :/

yea

That would certenly be easier than earning them

 

Theft is dumb. Especially org theft.

I don't like the way theft is presented in the IRE games (by using magical forces to make someone hand over an item). My view of thieves in fantasy-based games have been people of wit and skill. The way it is now is more like mugging.

I would rather have pickpockets over the almost brute force methods Achaean thieves use.

Thievery ruins a game for me, to be honest. I don't have any sympathy for those that do.

First off, too many people bellyache about theives. Do I like them? No, not particularly. However, it's part of the game and what makes it more "real" for the times we RP in.  I would like the idea of thieves *A LOT* better if they were able to have recently stolen items looted off their corpse.

People cry too much about their text-possessions for true thievery to exist. If the only risk you allow yourself to take part in is whether you're going to get killed by a denizen or not, your experience of a game must really suck.

 

I'm all for thieves (being someone who would never, ever have the skills to actually be a thief) of all sorts, especially those who make theft interesting. Organizational theft has so much potential for bad-assery, but it just gets treated as lolworthy most times.

The problem with the potential for thieves, just like any other non-generic thing, is that idiots have just as much access to it as anyone else.

I wish theft was more prevalent, because I find it to be pretty interesting.

and that's fine by me.  I don't want there to be rampant thievery everywhere.  It would make things too uneasy while playing and that's a great reason to regular thievery. 

Thieves are definitely an emotional issue especially when they take advantage of a connection problem and rob you over and over and over!

Well, thieves can be any class that can force you to give them stuff nowadays. Times change, as do perception words and labels. Heck, a monk can be a thief now!

It was said earlier that a good thief is a thief who only steals from denizens, not true, a good thief is a thief that steals from you without your ever knowing that you have been robbed.

dat

It would be great to see theft evaluated and possibly replaced in Achaea.

There was a recent event where we had to go around and find a bunch of some item, then turn it in to a denizen to get "empowered", then go put it in another location.  I had my selfishness up and all, but the thief waited until I put it down (to give the item to the denizen) and forced me to give it to them instead.  I thought it was a clever use of the skill.  Sure, it was annoying at the time, but as a player I can respect the idea of theft for things like this.

skills probably shouldn't have to wait till large events to be used, though

You're right about that.  I just thought this was an example of good use of thief skills, as opposed to all the cries of "griefer!" that this article is eliciting.

They shouldn't

Theft is dead in Achaea anyway. And about nonexistent in Lusternia at that

Soo much staying away from post offices after reading this hehe. Good one.

There can never be enough thieves...come on over - the water is warm!!!

We don't need another Malapardis, who makes fortunes compulsion stealing from others. I don't mind rogue thiefs as much, they aren't as ludicrous or successful.

 

   Risk/reward, when stealing items if the risk/reward is balanced I think it would be fine to add into a game.

  For example instead of killing a dragon to get the ring of power. A good thief could just slink past it and steal the ring, gaining the same treasure and experience.

  But if the theif failed he would get eaten and suffer the same fate as the great warrior before him.

 

thief monks sound like a good idea?

it is!

=grief

/\

what that dude said

Malapardis is scum...so are all those other bastards who've robbed me. NOW GIMME MY CREDIT.... so I can learn some rogue skills and get the bastards back by stealing their stuff

While it's infuriating to loose somethinga to a theif, it is equally satisfying to watch one flounder against your anti-theft measures. And it does add some extra excitement to the game.

I fondly remember Tenebrus for his mad thieving attempts on me. Crazy guy! (actually, I fondly remember Tenebrus for pretty much everything. RIP, matey).

I think Tenebrus was and is the only theif that I actually enjoyed interacting with. He carried it through until the end and didn't respond with 'lol I has your stuffz naw'.

 

The only problem was he was more of a loveable rogue and you had to give him kudos for his creativity. You just couldn't help wanting to punch him in the face for stealing your stuff one minute but then suddenly thinking 'Slippery B&$@!!d...' with a momentary chuckle.

Tenebrus should be the first thief to come to mind.

YOU STOLE MY CLOUDSONG

I think thieves are here to stay. After all you can't have heros without villans. Theives are excellent villans.

Theft always starts as a negative experience for a player, with loss of gold or objects, the shock of the theft itself, sometimes violence and death. It very rarely turns into a positive one: the RP that thieves use to justify their theft is so rare, or fails most of the times. I have seen enjoyable RP only while negociating and successfully getting the stolen items back. Gold of course is never returned. Theft RP should be enjoyable for both the thief and the victim. Too often I have seen young ones being robbed and being too scared to continue enjoying their game, even with antitheft in place. If weighing the negative experience versus the positive, I am rather for removing, or at least changing theft.

and there si no way to equalize the loss as a victim

I agree with you Oceana

The shock of suddenly losing all of the stuff you just spent hours or days working to gather so that you can enjoy the game is enough to make a lot of newer players simply quit and go do something easier.

Most MMORPGs are really just grindfests with preprogrammed quests, with little if any roleplay or opportunity for freeform goal-setting.  So in that sort of grindfest, actual theives don't really fit (and neither do most of the more interesting other approaches to the rogue.)

 

Make Occultists good at thievery again!

 

yes

please. Not that I would, just... I want to see some.

yes please

Poor git gets a bad rap

Really the whole concept of 'thief' as a class is kind of silly.  If I steal something from someone, I'm a thief.  I could be any class and do this.  I could be a controller and do this, I may want to control someone to make them do things that does not involve them giving me all their stuff.  If I hide behind someone and stab them, why would I have to be a 'thief' to get those benefits?  Just because I'm not a thief doesn't mean I can't hide in shadows.  Anyone should be able to figure out the best way to do that.

MKO's class is Rogue and the specialization is Thief.  Personally, I think this makes more sense.  It might be best if a different but similar word was used for thief, though..

this

that

Fascinating.

thieves should have long ranged weapons too

I agree!

Midkemia seams to have a fun thief class

sounds lke a fun class. can pick locks and stuff

i love you

 

((i like how realistic the world is))

at least they can't steal all these credits we get

This article is just ridiculous. A few of its many stupid points:

 

Says there are no thieves in most games, but later, contradicts itself saying instead that thieving in many games is possible but unsatisfying, because you only get the same award as if you'd killed the victim (wait... if you take all they're carrying, that's the only sensible thing. They can't magically have more money if you pickpocket them than if you kill them. Fail.)

 

Argues that somehow, hypnotism is far more awesome than theft, despite achieving the same ends and merely being another form of theft. Also, wasn't the point of the article that you liked theft? Another dumb contradiction that further makes this a useless piece of junk.

 

Finally, argues that Achaea is somehow a paragon of awesome gameplay due to hypnotism, something most players hate and that hasn't added anything to the fun of the game. In fact, one of the better IRE games, Aetolia, has removed theft almost entirely because it was just plain un-fun.

 

Keep up the fantastic, totally non-contradictory and fail-filled articles that definitely have a point other than advertising. For sure.

Is not. :<{]

meh

Even in Achaea, thieves just end up being ok damage, afflictions, and fast movement... real stealing is all by impossible unless people completely forget to put up selfishness which I am pretty sure all houses by now require their newbies to acquire.

I like Rogue Thieves in MKO, but it definitely needs to be tweaked..

can I comment on a single article and still have something relevant to say so it doesn't look like I'm just trying to get the credit?  3.  This is #4.

Hehe

Too many credits

Will bring infinite of tears to IRE. And I mean, INFINITE

Can't wait to Trans out Hypnosis.

Thieves are generaly socialy unacceptable.  But, I think they create some intresting rp.  That being said I have never played a game where theft was permited and don't think I'd like it.  I sometimes get cought up reading a book or something and I'd not even notice being stolen from.  reading a book ig that is.  b

Reposting something I wrote on the Achaean forums, in a thread lamenting the death of theft:

Re theft, some examples of how other games do it:

WoW: Pickpocketing - can pickpocket some denizens and get gold and random junk (sometimes hilarious, like gnome gentlemen magazines...)

Avalon: Doors can be unlocked using a lockpicking skill, which is a channeled ability like creating a warp. Only can be done when magical lock seals (activated via sigils) wear off. Using a sigil on a door, usually setup via a totem which automatically activates when people walk by, grants the impenetrable lock for anywhere between 1-30 hours. So unlocking the door requires constant check-ins to verify it's actually pickable and then the 20+ minutes you are vulnerable to actually pick it. It is actually a really tense, fun experience. The thievery there is mostly based on organization items, held in guild or city vaults - these items are used for realm-wide quests and rituals or are divine gifts or etc and don't reset, so thieves can sell them to the highest bidders. The game itself provided targets - and the mechanics to acquire them - which were far more lucrative than normal mugging, so that is the challenge the skilled aimed for. Thieves who directly robbed other people versus burgled were considered crude and novice at the craft.

For the mugging itself, there was a skill called "steal" which sigils prevented. Cost balance, easy to detect. You could afflict people to lower their awareness and make it easier to successfully steal (such as stripping their third eye or proning them). There was also pilfering which stole a random amount of coin from people, but which sometimes gave vague "your purse feels a bit lighter" messages. Great to use during big group gatherings to grab some spare change for refills. Yes, from citymates. What, I was a thief! 

I was GM of Thieves in that game for several years and the RP based around thievery was great. At one point, we banded together into one guild and sold mafia-esque "protection" contracts to various orgs, hunting down (open PK game) the rogues who didn't fall in line. Guild progression and interviews involved stuff like leaving snarky letters in x number of treasure chambers or stealing your own pants.

Lithmeria: Lockpicking challenges based on puzzles. Awesome.

New Moon (PvE exclusive MUD): The Thievery system here was amazing. You really played as a Thief. Every time you robbed a denizen, your "suspicion" level was raised. If you had lower skills learned, it would go up much higher each time. Eventually, if you did it enough, you'd attract attention from the very attempt and guards would be on the lookout for you - there would be actual bounty posters out with your name on it and you'd have to use all your stealth skills to avoid the NPCs or you'd get tossed in jail. A friendly player would have to bail you out or you'd be stuck there for an hour. 

TL;DR: If IREs were serious about theft, they would have more mechanics for it, both for the victims and for the thieves. Right now, it appears to be a somewhat crude system more akin to mugging and haphazard infiltration. 

the lockpicking part is pretty interesting and sounds intense!

I agree with the above poster.

..

;)

I think that the thieving system is one of the more interesting roleplaying based mechanisms in the game. It actually allows for a player to target specific organizations and annoy the mother-loving crap out of them. Which, in my opinion, is a good thing.

The fact is...this is a fantasy realm, if there weren't thieves how would this be a realistic cross-section of 'the real world', or a real 'fantasy world.' Thieves exist, they make people angry, they are sneaky...that is what THEY DO.

Without them the game would definitely lack some of its lustre. And I'm speaking as someone who has been robbed multiple times in the past myself. It actually gave me an RP event, along with my city, to deal with in some way. Some of the best RP experiences I have been in in game have been because a thief dared to steal from me.

One additional point...does anyone find it strange that in IRE thieves are not a melee class? In every other game I've played they've been melee, and here they're mostly ranged.

Thiefy type classes have always been a personal favorite of mine

I really don't see a reason to complain about theft in Achaea. Most of you non-thieves might not have paid attention to it, but selfishness was lowered to around 40 (?) lessons in survival, which means everyone at level 30 probably has it, and tophats have been made return randomly instead of returning at certain intervals, so people can't even try the theft in the minute before the hat returns. If an experienced player has selfishness down while sitting idle in the middle of nowhere, that's like an invitation. The only thing missing is writing "rob me" on your forehead in bright pink letters.

 

What I would like to see is the ability to pick locks and get into private houses, but that's probably too hard to balance.

MKO has a LOCKPICK ability. I think it needs to be tweaked, though...

Having thieves in the game and having to learn how to defend your char against them is a goo d thing in my opinion. It helps interaction and immersion no end.

Agreed, wholeheartedly. And it makes for very interesting twists to the game.

I've been tempted to make a serpent

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That sel;fishness cannot be stripped.

Most people simply don't want to have to look over their shoulders all the time when they wind down after a long day of hunting. I don't want people to be able to get into my house, whether by prism or lockpicking, just so they can steal in seconds what it took me weeks to gather, it's natural. I'm not saying theft should be abolished altogether but it should be reworked. Make it possible for thieves to only steal from organizational places, like the vaults of a city, banks, House halls. This could be great for espionage as well and actually make politics a bit more interesting than what's going on right now. Anyway, that's just my two cents, people will probably disagree.

 

If I understand the rules of Achaea, you get the right to kill an adventure for each theft attempt, succesfull or not. This, however, does not take into account the vaule of the theft. This is absolutely not fair, also because, even if you hire or you kill the thief directly, you won't get your things back. Therefore, my opiion is that IRE should at least take into account the degree of the theft, and offer more possibility to retaliate. I was robbed yesterday while I was testing a client on an iPhone, and I was asked 5 credits by the thief, which I prefer not to mention publicly, in order to get my belongings back. 5 credits are quasi-RL money! And I only get to kill him once, if I manage? This is clearly unjust. I would like to have a lifetime permission to kill him! This is just my opnion, and I do not wanto to insult any thief, which I respect as players, but the benefits from thefts outstand the pena by far!

Too much thieving would be very bad for people using clients on their mobile phones. It's much harder to defend yourself without using a keyboard to type.

:)

Does lusternia have anything close to a 'thief'?  Closest I can think are the stealth users.  and that's not really that close.

Thieves can work and be incredibly fun to play. The problem is they need an entire pve system based around non-player theft. This includes shoplifting (npc shops) and quests (museum or gallery heists). Player theft opens the thief up for full pvp repercussions. 

It only works when the entire player base has access to most of the abilities, but thieves do it best, with clearly defined punishment (from either players or npcs) if caught.

No, no thief class. Rogue class maybe, but that's why achaea has Serpents

I never understood why people walk around with millions of gold on their person anyhow. It makes so much more sense to just put some of it in a bank and then keep a little on you for buying commodities/curatives.

I do that

There's not a lot of theft in Lusternia, but I enjoyed fighting off thieves in Achaea. It kept me on my toes.

Yes, it's a constant battle of making sure you know where it's safe and where it is not...I like that!

dont exist in mmo's.

Serpents and Occies, no true thief per say in my eyes.

Heh

Who likes the idea of other people stealing their stuff? Play Talisman...thieves, always taken the good stuff right when you need it. :<

Well, in Achaea, they're standing hidden in the room with you while you are AFK.

 

Loreen had an interesting idea a few years ago for a 'drunkard' class. Included increased pain resistance, the classic slurred speech, and even a blackout that would make you impervious, but difficult to control.

 

Perhaps if a thief class were given a fresh look like this, rather than just considering it a high-level rogue.

Tenebrus needs to come back and show everyone how to do it right.

I prefer there to be less thieves.

And I prefer there to be world peace

Yeah, I'm going to say it.

There's a prevailing Theft Culture in Achaea, where everyone talks about thieves, genuinely new newbies are terrified of thieves, every org has dozens of semi-identical helpscrolls about thieving, and all anyone ever seems to talk about is anti-theft.

This is why I stopped playing Achaea. Theft — not just the thieves themselves but everyone else's focus on them — does not make a fun playing atmosphere.

Lusternia doesn't have that problem.

 

The article kind of confuses me, though. By "other MMOs" I usually assume it means WoW. WoW doesn't have a Thief class. Most MMOs I know have a Rogue instead of a Thief, and the article seems to be okay with "rogue" as a generic descriptor. The push these days is towards Assassins anyways.

Thieves were the only reason you stopped playing Achaea?  Hard to believe.

Poor things :X

..

I first played Aetolia for the sole purpose of being a sneaky thief, but sadly you can not do it that much now. However I for one would love to see a thieft system added for syssin. One involving the thieft of npcs, random org buildings and other fun things.

 

The serpents who want to be are amazing thieves.

Until there is serious reprisals to thieves, I can do without them.

...isn't that you actually are the victim of theft. As many people have written above, what I've seen in Achaea, and even what I've personally experienced, I appreciate the effort and time some thieves put in to pull off a successful heist.

 

The problem is the retribution a victim seeks for the crime perpetrated against him. As an example, if someone loses an object that does not reset and is almost unique (eg., divinely gifted) then they want to tear the thief's lungs out through their mouth. That is precisely the reaction a lot of thieves wish to achieve. Many thieves prey on the opportunity to rob, claim killing in defense in the moment, and defense for the period of time he is fair game of PK. The mechanics to retrieve the lost goods, or the life time of hunting down that thief is not there for evoking that reaction. Think of how we as players (as real people) react to finding out we've been burgled or cope with being mugged. We have a system and recourse to hold a thief accountable. IRE has a good system of conflict to incite such reaction in its customers but there's no equitable retaliation.

 

Keep theft, but give victims the chance to recover their losses (hiring a mark to get back some XP isn't quite the same). It'd be great to hire NPC bounty hunters that would be able to track a thief and demand the lost item back "or else." :D

 

 

 

Thief and assassin classes are really prevalent at least in Korean MMOs. Probably my favourite when it comes to Ragnarok Online or things like that!

We have both as terts in Midkemia

Theft in IRE tends to make unpopular characters.

It can be irritating, and I wouldn't like being a theif. But having good thieves in a game really adds to the atmosphere and makes life more interesting.

UO had a better design for thief classes. Granted, there was full item drop on death too (til they introduced the whole binding crap.)

Came here for the QQs, was not disappointed.

Heh.

Heh heh.

Theft in Achaea is pretty much slain with that latest new change of pickpocketing...

Key word being can, of course. We'll see.

We have them in every game pretty much

This article seems to be outdated now!

The changes in achaea will basically stop people even trying on non-newbies.

I wouldn't have minded seeing the old thieving attempts. They sound interesting

all the way. But we can only really steal from denizens now. Oh well

Thieves not in Achaea anymore! :P

Achaea kind of reverted to the pickpocket denizen only skill of Wow.

Rogues?

Hmm

I cant really think of a way to make the theft system better without throwing off game balence.

 

the problem in Achaea is that no one has tought that you can still steal items as a serpent. But I won't tell how =)

Losing equipment and gold in a game where you are screwed without it will never work properly. Victims will cry and bad thieves wil gloat

thievery is griefing, griefing is bad, and most of the time thievery is really just find novice, cast force give thing to me. Have I never stolen items from enemies, no when I played imperian I stole items from higher tier combatants that should of been capable of keeping selfishness up, but I mostly mailed the vials- usually back to the opponent after the fight. Of course if he called me a bad name after the fight the mail might get lost for a little longer then average.

I haven't, thus far, seen theft as big of an issue in Aetolia as it sometimes is in Achaea.

pretty happy that theft is frowned on in Lusty.  Had it happen once in Achaea, and even though you can tell yourself "it's just text-money", it still sucks.

there are no thieves in the games because then they'll get butchered.

Credit comment.

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-1

They don't exist, because the administration of other games would rather spend their time on creating content, fixing bugs, etc. than dealing with the grief created by a majority of the people who play thief classes nowadays.  And now Achaea has followed suit.

Achaea HAD  a thief class then they decided to start catering more toward the whiners then the people who RP'd this way, not at their own fault though - there was a handful of people who definitely took it beyond RP or reasonable levels and crossed the 'griefing' line by leaps and bounds, which is the sort of behaviour that unfortunately causes administrators (completely understandably) to have to cater toward the effected not the effectors, thusly making this class (realistically) hard to maintain.

like to see an actual thief before these changes in person. I've seen logs (mainly of Profit) attempting to steal things, but no one has attempted anything on me thus far.

I would imagine hunted down and dead.

I have had a theft attempt on me a couple times, and have actually quite enjoyed it, due to the fact that it made the game come very alive, heart pounding, concentrating furiously on the screen. I think that the theft in Achaea can lend to seom very good RP

Theft is kind of hard to balance properly. It works in traditional RPGs (D&D etc., tabletop or computer game) because players rarely oppose one another in such games, so any unfairness in theft is less important, while the theft itself is easier for the developer (or GM) to control.

Also, Achaea (and most other MUDs) kind of have absurdly ridiculous movement rates and methods of escape. Whether someone succeeds or fails to steal from you, they can be on the other side of the game world in a few moments with the right artefacts, and mhuns move at a frankly absurd rate. That's why hellmoo, in spite of being the worst setting ever, still had some of the best game design concepts I've seen from a MUD; moving was a thing that actually took time, and it was so simple but so awesome.

Also, I like how I assume RO thieves worked, breaking equipment and stuff. Disgaea thieves did them one better though, stealing enemy traits (stats). I also like how they were good at theft, and thus had a ton of potential, but subpar combatants compared to other classes.

They atre out there, stealing your sigils and small amounts of gold.

I don't care much for thievery; I'm glad it isn't really present in MMOs.

Death of the achaean thief 2012

yes kill the witch I mean thief!

removed. Always removed.

credit

ever

Is a part of life and it the chances of it make the game more realistic. I just hate it when it happens to me. Everyone who is not a thief says ,"Kill the thief".  It is the same everywhere and in every age. Now if we could throw the apprehended thief in jail that would be cool.

never robbed anyone and only been robbed once. Poor guy lost his head over pocket change and a pack about to decay :D was well worth it

I still have barely even tried..it's just too much of a pain in MKO, to be honest.